@Helga and @Rupert
Yes, I’m still lurking on occasion, after having written off Wahoo X SYSTM etc for multiple reasons, not least of which was exactly what this change indicates about the directions being taken by Wahoo for the app (by whatever name.)
As soon as I saw the thread title, my IMMEDIATE thought was, “NOOO! NOT THE MTB RACE!!!” And CLEARLY it is high on the list of regrets by posters here!
But as others have said, that whole series had a distinct appeal, engaging several disciplines in one series, revealing some aspects most of us would have no exposure to even have a clue what some of these young racers do in training, and there’s much more.
For me, the MTB race was UNFORGETTABLE ON THE KICKR BIKE! For some, it might even be thought of negatively but I LAUGHED OUT LOUD at myself when the KICKR BIKE NEARLY THREW ME OFF THE SADDLE on some of the very sudden and extreme gradient changes!! It was SO FAST and SO DIFFERENT from any other ride that I have kept that MTB Race in the back of my mind ever since. Anytime I want to experience the FULL MEASURE of what the KICKR BIKE CAN DO, I knew I could ride that one again.
And as others have said, that race was SO ENGAGING, SO GRIPPING, SO INTENSE, that unless you just withdraw in defeat, you MUST MAX OUT your effort and GO FOR IT! The loss of that workout is HUGE to Wahoo! And so it is true for the rest of that WEEK WITH series workouts.
I have been using ROUVY for over a month, taking advantage of a 50% off price for 2 months with them, reevaluating that app, deciding if a silent app can even hope to keep my engaged (that’s a significant question mark!), and appreciating the actual video of actual places in the world I’ll never visit but can ride virtually anyway! (That’s a BIG PLUS for ROUVY.)
But frankly, as @sir_james.p has said,
Here is my question to Wahoo: Does it make more BUSINESS SENSE to continue to REDUCE YOUR CONTENT to save (how little??) money, while in the process ALIENATING, AGGRAVATING, and LOSING CUSTOMERS, or is it just barely possible that you need to work out BETTER CONTRACTS IN THE FIRST PLACE, i.e. specific agreements that allow ongoing use of the content for as long as the app exists, at agreed-upon pricing.
This is just ludicrous in my opinion that Wahoo has EVER had to surrender ANY OF THESE WORKOUTS! Your user base is varied and you cannot be certain which workouts will become favorites, but you can expect support from at least some of your base for any that are well designed and well produced.
So when you REMOVE CONTENT, you should EXPECT DISSATISFACTION, and in my humble opinion, you should expect MORE DISSATISFACTION from REMOVING CONTENT than you can gain from ADDING CONTENT, EVEN THOUGH ADDING IS IMPORTANT, even CRITICAL! But for the last year, it seems that CONTENT REMOVAL has been at the top of the list of changes to the app! AND YOU HAVE HEARD THE GRUMBLING!
Sure, you’ve added workouts. Kudos for that. Small kudos. Because the additions have been pushed to the dimly lit side of the stage by the glaring losses that are up front and center!
I’ve read of some satisfaction that one or two of the most recently RE-RE-REMASTERED workouts are FINALLY catching SOME of the spirit of their ORIGINAL EXCELLENT CHARACTER. I AM ENCOURAGED at that, and IT DOES MATTER! I wouldn’t continue to lurk here at all if I hadn’t seen any glimmer of hope. It’s dim for sure, and the subject of this thread threatens to snuff the smoldering wick…
For WHOEVER is actually BEHIND THESE LOSSES, here are some blatantly OBVIOUS QUESTIONS:
WAS IT WORTH ALL THIS LOSS??
WAS IT IMPOSSIBLE TO WORK OUT NEW TERMS OF AGREEMENT TO MAINTAIN AWESOME CONTENT??
DOES IT MAKE MORE SENSE TO TRASH THIS ALREADY EXISTING “WEEK WITH UCI” ONLY TO (IF THIS EVEN HAPPENS) DEVELOP A REPLACEMENT, WITH NEW PRODUCTION COSTS AND UNCERTAIN QUALITY AND APPEAL?
IF I MYSELF (and I’m not naive enough to think I’m fit for the task, nor would I desire the responsibility) were suddenly thrust into the position of directing the future of Wahoo X, SYSTM, (WHATEVER), I know that my very first order would be to task the appropriate personnel to WORK OUT AGREEMENTS TO RETAIN EXISTING CONTENT for ANY that does not have ongoing access at agreed upon rates. It well may be that your previous agreements were ill-conceived and too expensive to continue, especially if your user base has declined (wonder why that is?), but you clearly have NOT RETAINED THE QUALITY OF PERSONNEL that can PRODUCE EQUAL OR BETTER CONTENT to offset the losses.
And if the “old” content is BETTER than what you’re prepared to offer in its stead, yet you still choose to remove it, you WILL NOT GAIN CUSTOMERS by RAISING RATES. YOU CAN ONLY LOSE MORE!
(I’m proof of this; I MIGHT still return were the pricing tolerable but it is NOT. And I’m CERTAINLY NOT PAYING FOR ANNUAL with the OBVIOUS DECLINE OF THE APP, so the MONTHLY COST IS JUST PROHIBITIVE. As good as SYSTM IS (WAS?), I still ride outdoors whenever I can, so there must be a more flexible policy if I’m to support it. While ROUVY rates are now as high as SYSTM, they offer several ways to save, including the 50% offer they’ve given me a couple times, and DUAL and GROUP rates that are much better, plus a PAUSE FOR UP TO 6MONTHS feature. I will do exactly that, with a friend(s) if I indeed am willing to commit to ROUVY long-term.)
I’m TRULY HOPING that SYSTM will not only SURVIVE, but also THRIVE AND REGAIN DIRECTION before it is swallowed up by the competition. I hope all the feedback that has been received on this forum IS HEEDED before it is too late. THERE IS NO OTHER APP OF ITS KIND, and its STRENGTH IS ITS UNIQUENESS, which sadly is being WATERED DOWN BY IGNORANCE of that UNIQUE VALUE.
One last thought… I am not convinced in the least that the operating costs of offering SYSTM exceeds the operating costs of some competitors like ROUVY OR ZWIFT. Since I hate ZWIFT, I’ll avoid commenting on costs to produce and present content, but ROUVY offers an always growing list of routes all over the world, an also growing and effective list of workouts which I have used to good purpose, some training plans which I do not use with any app anyway but which might be better with ROUVY because ROUVY does import one’s outdoor activities, a long-requested but never offered feature from SYSTM.