Don’t get me wrong — I like Mike’s videos, and when they first started appearing in Systm, I welcomed them as a breath of fresh air, something new for the platform. However, I never thought they would replace the classic Sufferfest workouts. I feel like Wahoo keeps shooting itself in the foot with these decisions to replace SUF classics with On Location videos. Who in their right mind would think it’s a good idea to replace the fun and engaging (and recently refreshed!) Recharger with a music-free video where we spend two-thirds of the time staring at Mike’s back? Right now, I can’t imagine doing that workout weekly in this version — it’s just not the same anymore.
Get a grip, Wahoo, before it’s too late. From what I can see, the opinions about phasing out Sufferfest content are overwhelmingly clear. I believe you still have this possibility of being a company that actually listens to its customers.
Its Wahoo’s app, they have all the data on usage. If they are watering down The Sufferfest and prioritising On Location videos I assume it must be because they have data to back that up.
Either that or it is more profitable to make an On Location Video that they own the copyright for, than get extorted by the UCI, ASO and Warner/Discovery for the rights to race footage.
I have a feeling that Sufferfest fans are a minority of SYSTM users. Nobody I have ridden with IRL has used or is using SYSTM, most are on Zwift and some are switching to MyWhoosh. 2 people I’ve recommended it to have been put off by the name Sufferfest and one of them does adventure racing for fun, which I would have thought would be a match for type 2 fun.
They probably also had data supporting the acquisition of RGT — which didn’t even survive a full year under Wahoo’s management — as well as the introduction of the RGT steering device (now a useless piece of plastic), which some naïve users bought and ended up using for an even shorter time.
If getting rid of SUF content is really meant as a cost-saving measure, I’m not sure it won’t backfire — Wahoo might end up losing more from departing users than it saves.
@Karp666 Read this thread - they didn’t want to replace the footage. They had issues with renewing licensing and didn’t want to completely remove the workouts from the library as they would have to redo all of the training plans.
Thanks for sharing this, that sheds an entirely different light on this issue. I feel like it could have been communicated more openly than through a forum thread though. I hope the issues will be sorted - because Systm is not the same (and not as attractive for me) with SUF content leaving the platform.
I do agree but would just add that three of the original Sufferfest videos feature Mike Cotty. They are distinct from the On Location videos in that they have an engaging soundtrack throughout and are a bit more interesting in terms of the video construction. Getting Away With It is my most ridden Sufferfest video by a big margin - 29 times and I’ve got in my calendar for next week. Whilst they couldn’t replace the Suf videos with race footage I do think On Locations being more like the 3 Suf videos with Mike would be better.
I would still like to know “why” there was an issue with renewing the licensing to the footage and or more specially “what” the issue was that I couldn’t be rectified. I would find it very hard to believe that the issue was do to the UCI or who ever else’s footage was used in the original Sufferfest videos saying “Sorry, you can’t use our footage anymore.” I mean, these videos with this footage have been around for years and now all of a sudden there was an issue. Sorry, I’m a curious type of person and when 2+2=5 I start asking questions.
They likely had a time period for the license and when it expired the license holder said no to the renewal or wanted to charge an exorbitant relicense fee. But without knowing what actually happened it’s hard to know the exact reasons. And I doubt Wahoo will give us full details of their negotiations, especially if they want to keep negotiating and license any footage in the future.
Agreed and we will never know and correct me if I’m wrong but if I recall correctly, in a post somewhere about the licensing issue, that we were actually told, in not so many words, “We aren’t going to tell you why or what”.
It does seem a bit crazy on the part of license holders not to be keen to offer footage at a decent price. It isn’t like it is going to take viewers away from anything else given the limited audience and very specific use case. But it does increase the engagement and interest of us using the Wahoo platform in professional bike racing and make us more likely to watch and subscribe to pro racing. I certainly started riding on Sufferfest and later became a regular watcher and subscribing to pro bike racing channels.
I think the GCN footage likely also came around because of the GCN parent company being purchased by Discovery-Warner who eventually used GCN to consolidate debt and tv licenses and then drive traffic to their apps while removing almost all the benefits, incentives, and profitable features that had any associated cost. It doesn’t make sense to us as consumers, but apparently made some kind of later financial sense to Dis-Warner and their shareholders.
But the thing with the GCN videos is that, if I remember correctly, there was no race or outdoor footage. The footage was of GCN riders on stationery trainers indoors, correct? Maybe there was some outdoor footage? Either way, none of the footage for the GCN stuff was race footage so surely the cost to license that footage couldn’t have been all that great of cost….but maybe it was . I know that the message about the removal of the footage came from Sir David back in 2022 but given what has been taking place recently, I can’t help but to now wonder if there was more to it than just a “we couldn’t come to an agreement on renewal”.
More than likely it came down to cost and just not having the money to pay for it. System is the least used of the apps and the most expensive if you asses its value to capability. At the moment it seems like its only the die hard Sufferfest lovers who are hanging in. I would not be surprised if they close it down in the coming year.
I agree why would you say such a thing…..I just renewed my annual membership.
Back to the topic “Mike Cotty will never replace Sufferfest”. I don’t think that is the goal. I view the on location episodes as a breath of fresh air. I would much rather ride with and be coached by @michael.cotty than watch myself as an avatar on some fantasy road to nowhere. I have been a Sufferfest/SYSTM member since 2017 and I am not sure there is any other platform that has, Yoga, Mental Training, Strength and Mobility all in one package.
Oh and by the way I appreciate the newly introduced shorter no-vid versions for those days I only have 30 to 40 minutes to squeeze a quality session in. I don’t know, personally SYSTM still works for me, hope it is around for awhile.
Looking at the remasters, most of the video material seems to be from races from Flanders Classics and the Tour de Suisse. There are also smaller races such as the Tour of the Alps. There is no material from races organized by ASO or RCS. I also think they probably couldn’t agree on the price, or the organizations only want to release their material to certain media partners. In general, there is an ongoing discussion in cycling about how much the teams should receive from license revenues, etc. See the One Cycling discussion or Velon. Maybe this is related.
