Systm a waste of my time and money

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So I am very happy with my KICKR CORE with ZWIFT Cog and Clik when using ZWIFT. But I REALLY wanted to do the SYSTM 4DP test! I was VERY excited - and yes scared - about it. Was planning on doing it tomorrow. However, after trying the SYSTM Ramp workout (recommended doing a day or so before the 4DP) I see now that I cannot use ZWIFT CLIK to shift gears during ANY SYSTM workout. Therefore, I cannot do the 4DP because you can’t use ERG or Cog (and PLEASE don’t tell me “to just swap out the Cog for my 11-32 11sp my cassette” as I am 100% mechanic ally incompetent and it took me 2.5 hrs to figure out how to put my bike on the Core with the cog and another day or so to figure out the Clik. Then when I took it off to take the bike to the shop to get my new pedals put on (yes I have no idea how to do that - tried once years ago and after 6 hrs and bloody knuckles gave up) I couldn’t get the chain back on and put 2 of the little springs on one side of the wheel.

So then i did come research and saw a app called QZ that was supposed to allow m,e to virtually shift and even hook up my FitBit as a HRM. I clicked all the little options on QZ for virtual shifting and HRM and it did F#$%all, neither worked at all. Wasted 45mins completely out of synch with everything going on in SYSTM and out-of-depth on the ramp workout.

So I would GREATLY appreciate it if someone can explain how I can get virtual shifting to work using QZ or something else. Or, failing that, is there a way to do the 4DP on Zwift entriely?

NOTE LOL: all explanations must be as if you are explaining to a 5 yr old. I have 3 liberal arts masters degrees and a high IQ but pretty much anything mechanical, I am a Neanderthal and will never understand it. simple PC Windows S/W stuff I might be able to get.

If I can’t do the 4DP with my setup I’ll be very sad and cancel Wahoo X/SYSTM.

Thanks in advance
John

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Well, you don’t need to shift in level mode. Use the number keys to change levels, higher numbers are harder. I think the tilde ~ puts it back in ERG mode, but might be zero instead.

Also, unless you are this guy, lower numbers should work fine for you. Cyclist vs Toaster

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Hey @John_Fishman,welcome to the forums.

A few things:
Virtual shifting via the Click and Cog will not work in SYSTM at this time (maybe ever).

HOWEVER , with that said, there is a way for you to do the 4DP but given your requirements to explain as if you were 5, I WILL fail. I’m gonna give it a shot anyway, cuz I like challenges :stuck_out_tongue: .

Before we get there though, you should know that most people with smart trainers use ERG mode for structured training. Unlike Zwift where you are riding in a simulated virtual world, where you shift gears to match the terrain you are riding, SYSTM does not provide a simulation of real world riding. SYSTM’s strength is their structured workouts (with some VERY engaging video to watch, and in some, music to listen to, while doing them). While Zwift does have a bunch of these it is NOT their strength. The vast majority of the SYSTM cycling workouts can be done in ERG mode where shifting gears is not done anyway. The trainer controls resistance and you just have to match the cadence target.

So, that aside (for now), if you want to take the 4DP test to make sure your workout targets are personalized, then there’s a workaround technique that you could try which has been used successfully on the Half Monty SYSTM ramp test: (Zwift Ride with SYSTM - #11 by Brian_Kraemer).

You need to understand that this technique will still not let you use virtual shifting, so you won’t be able to use the Click. You also won’t be actually shifting gears, virtual or otherwise, but you will experience a change in resistance based on your cadence that you will be able to adjust (sort of like changing gears but not really).

If I read you right, you are using SYSTM on a Windows PC? Yes?

If so, when you start a cycling workout from the Cycling Library (this will work on ANY cycling workout) you will see a gear icon at the top right of the screen. Tap that icon. From there, if you follow the directions for using Level Mode, you should be able to change levels where each progressive level provides greater resistance as your cadence increases. There is a keyboard shortcut that allows you to choose a Level on the fly using your number keys 0-9.

I’d suggest you try this on something like Open 30 from the cycling library and have a play with the different levels, experimenting with your cadence at each level. For example, try Level 0 and increase your cadence to see how much resistance is provided as you approach your max. If you find yourself spinning out because resistance is too low, then Level 0 won’t work for you when Sprinting (the first part of the 4DP test). Try the same thing again with Level 1 and keep going like this until you find a Level where you can reach what is close to a Max Sprint and the resistance feels about right.

Similarly, you can try different levels to experiment with different parts of the 4DP test. The second part of 4DP is a max 5 minute effort, the third part a max 20 minute effort, and the last part a max 1 minute effort.

This won’t be fun. It’ll feel like a real pain in the butt and a BIG hassle. But, once you’ve learned the Levels that will work best for each of the 4 types of effort of the 4DP test, you’ll have that knowledge for ETERNITY as well as for the next time you take the test (if you survive :wink: )

I could say more, but I’ve probably already lulled your 5 year old self to sleep.

Edit: also, fwiw, it might be worth editing your title to say SYSTM 4DP using a Zwift Cog and Click (sorta a flies with honey thing :slight_smile: )

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you mean on the keyboard when I am doing the 4DP???

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Honestly in your situation I would just cancel the SYSTM subscription, until you’ve saved up enough to buy a smart trainer bike like the kickr shift that has gear shifters and no chain.

It’s possible that wahoo may add Zwift click gear changing to SYSTM in the future, but as we’ve been waiting 2 years for them to fix the video player so it doesn’t pause and stutter mid workout. I wouldn’t hold my breath.

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@John_Fishman There is a thread that details options - (1) you can ride in ERG and make some adjustments in the workout player but you often don’t test yourself well that way and it is a lot to manage during a test, (2) your can use level mode or (3) you can export the workout to Zwift so you can utilize the click using the directions in the thread.

You could also (4) just use the ramp or 20 minute test on Zwift in their workout library. It will get you to roughly the same place. You won’t get MAP, AC or NM values but I don’t think that will matter much since you are just starting out.

@John_Fishman You should be in ERG mode during the ramp and then switch to level mode after the ramp for the constrained effort. Here is a tutorial on level mode.

@John_Fishman Righty tighty, lefty loosely - unless you are dealing with pedals where the left pedal is reverse threaded and so both pedals are tightened towards the front of the bike and loosened towards the rear of the bike. Get a pedal wrench for better leverage and use proper anti-seize compound on the pedal threads and leather gloves to protect your hands.

@John_Fishman You would need the right tools for that - usually a chain whip and cassette tool and a long adjustable wrench and when you mount the cassette you need to torque it properly.

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correct. Depending on your setup. My laptop is right beside me so I have easy access and when it’s not, I have a remote app that allows me to use the keyboard shortcuts from my phone.

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I 100% disagree. I also think that’s a very unreasonable, not to mention unhelpful, suggestion. Most users with smart trainers do the SYSTM workouts using ERG. 4DP can be pretty closely approximated using a variety of techniques from manually inputting estimated numbers in a user’s profile and “testing” these out to using Zwift or other apps to get a pretty good sense of FTP then using standard percentages upwards for MAP, AC and NM. Is it perfect? No, obviously.

But, SYSTM is more than just a bunch of cycling workouts. There are some great plans, a bunch of 15 minute Yoga sessions for people (like me) who HATE Yoga. There’s Strength training plans and workouts off the bike as well as a FANTASTIC group of ultra short (6-7 minute) Mobility exercises to keep our aging (well…my aging) bodies supple and ready for whatever our days bring. There’s a brilliant Mental Training Program that can walk someone through the process of selecting a goal (no matter how big) right through to achievement.

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Standing back from this thread which seems to have taken an unfortunate direction, the problem is that Zwift, at least for now, seems to be trying to lock people into only using the Zwift app with its hardware. I hope people reading this will take note and perhaps look for alternatives to Zwift’s offerings.

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Honestly, I have no issue with Zwift doing what they’re doing. It would be nice if Wahoo (and other trainer manufacturers) were able to get virtual shifting into SYSTM (or their own apps) somehow as it’s really an incredible feature.
I’ve had the good fortune of trying it out with the Zwift Play and it’s impressive.

The Zwift hardware works in other apps provided you’re willing to implement workarounds or just limit yourself to ERG when not on Zwift.

As for the slight turn in the thread, I think we can cut newer folks a bit of slack.

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I seem to recall someone suggesting to select a flat course in Zwift and run dual Zwift and SYSTM, then be able to adjust resistance using Click.

Not sure this will work, but in theory worth a shot.

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This sounds like the best/easiest? suggestion yet. I think it’s totally doable like this.

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That’s because Zwift is easier to use without the elitism from some here.

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How???

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When does the “slack” run out?!

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Run Zwift on your PC and SYSTM on a different device (like a phone). Connect your trainer to both. Turn OFF trainer control in both platforms, but still make it so both are still reading power. Then start riding in Zwift. Then start Full Frontal on SYSTM. ignore the Zwift terrain and follow all the SYSTM Full Frontal directions.

Maybe someone else can provide longer and more detailed instructions. But in essence, that allows you to use Zwift to let you control and change gears using the cog but ignoring the terrain. And then SYSTM is reading and recording your power at the same time.

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What @emacdoug said is worth a try. Another option could be to start Zwift and let it “control” power (either select a flat course, or if resistance can be controlled without using Zwift ERG independent of terrain), then start SYSTM and run Full Frontal in the miniplayer overlaying Zwift enabling you to keep both on the same screen. This option would must likely require you use PC or Mac.

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TEMPUS FUGIT, BABY

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image

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:joy::rofl::joy:

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