SYSTM Feedback - ERG & Playlists

Just signed back up for SYSTM and have some feedback off my first session back.

I am using Wahoo X version 7.18 on macOS with a Wahoo Kickr Core.

ERG

  • When I start (and end) a ride, the warmup and cooldown should have a dramatically lower resistance level. Typically when I start riding, I am still tightening my BOAs for the right fit & making sure I am getting ready for the session. Even with a mellow warmup, the resistance goes berserk if I freewheel for a moment to tighten a BOA. Just makes for a crummy way to transition into the start of a ride. A thought on how to handle this - either disable ERG for warmup/cooldown, set these sections to a very low resistance level, or see if possibly ERG can have a wider parameter for enforcing resistance? (Less chance of hitting a wall due to noodling)
  • When the ride is finished and I am on the ‘upload ride’ screen, ERG mode is STILL enabled. This means if I am noodling to type for my upload or am viewing my phone for messages I missed during the ride, I am unable to noodle as the ERG resistance still expects me to be putting out 150 watts but if I don’t have a consistent pedal stroke, it’ll keep jerking ERG resistance. I suggest disabling ERG mode once the ride is over, so the user can still noodle as a bonus cooldown.

Playlist

  • Coming back to SYSTM, I wanted to review the On Location series for fun videos to enjoy with less pressure. Tasmania caught my interest but I had no context on if there is a video order suggested to try. It would be ideal to have Playlists, like the ‘A Week With…’ but instead of enforcing a calendar queue, have a YouTube like playlist to determine the order of videos that are suggested for a topic.
  • Similar to this, I would like to be able to view the available videos on the web so I can plan rides when I am away from the trainer, especially to gauge the commitment (time/TSS). (I have downloaded the Android app to explore videos, but this does not address environments like my desktop/laptop and I have no desire to install Wahoo X on these platforms to just to see available videos.)
  • After completing my first Tasmania video, I would like to see a Checkbox to indicate the ride has been completed at least once, so I can know which videos to target next. I know SYSTM had an excel export and also if I manually click rides, which should history, but I shouldn’t need to click on every ride to see history.

Another thought, I wonder on the idea of having a Queue where instead of using the Calendar, the user can queue up rides to tackle and clear for those with a less rigid riding schedule.

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One of the first things I would do is update SYSTM. You are on a very old version that has absolutely NO support. 7.56 is the latest.

Thanks. I’ll look into that. I guess I need to manually download the file from the Wahoo website. I searched through the app and could find no ‘Check for updates’ feature in the app. Thanks for the heads up.

I plan on riding tomorrow and will try to update my feedback to see what has changed since.

It is highly unlikely that you could upgrade from 7.18 to 7.56. SYSTM is available from the App Store as well as from Wahoo.

Just upgraded by downloading the latest MacOS Intel .DMG file and following the normal procedure of overwriting the old app.

I am now updated to 7.56, and my Playlist feedback still seems to apply. I see no indication of ‘completed’ rides or changes to how videos are suggested, such as ‘series’ beyond clicking the ‘On Location’ list, which is a bit noisy for choice. (No ability to quickly glance for a specific country.)

Sufferfest used to post version changelogs, but I can’t seem to find any resource for this for SYSTM to gain insights on changes.

There is a web app that requires no download so, not only can you review available videos, you can also schedule them in your calendar, move them around in the calendar, implement plans and do many of the things you otherwise would do in the application itself (except for download and play the vids).

https://systm.wahoofitness.com/home

As for your thoughts on a Queue: there is a just released “My list” tab, where if you’ve favourited any vid, you tap on the library where you can see your :blue_heart: faves.

There is no suggested order for the OL rides as they’re not built from a story telling perspective

There is still a LOT to be done to make the app and user interface better including some of the things you’ve suggested like a playlist function and being able to sort by “never ridden”.

OOOOOOOOOhhhhh YEAH!

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Thanks Glen. That website is helpful, though when browsing through the website I am not sure how someone would discover the dashboard.

I will be using “My List”, though that could get a little confusing for rides that I want to repeat or manage the order of. (Playlist desire) This is still a wonderful feature I will be using extensively now.

A “Never Ridden” filter would be brilliant.

One of my favorite motivators for Zwift is Route Badge completion. Reviewing the SYSTM Badges, I now see there has been an update providing Details for Badges which is awesome! This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Let me click on a location and see all the videos in a Playlist format. Somehow incorporating this into the Videos browser, or adding greater visibility for these Badges would be a huge benefit for navigation and motivation for riders like me.


(Tried using built-in image uploader and kept getting errors. Had to use Imgur for this screenshot.)

I booted up the app today to try Tasmania: Hobart City as a recovery ride.

  1. To my earlier comment on warmup ERG, the trainer was set to 120 watts. I go to tighten my shoe for a moment and instantly I get a nasty resistance jerk for not pedaling. It is minor, but it puts me in a grumpy mental mood that the warmup doesn’t give me the opportunity to properly get into the groove for the ride.
  2. I find out this ride includes high cadence drills, but when you aren’t given much of a warning to anticipate the effort and have been noodling around with barely any resistance, it felt extremely difficult to go over 100 cadence as I would start spinning out fast. For the final high cadence drill, I saw the bump on the chart to anticipate it. I switched to my big ring and went for it, hitting 167 cadence, but my KICKR Core starting reporting 40 cadence and then the SYSTM app paused, assuming I stopped pedaling as the KICKR Core’s flywheel wasn’t able to slow down enough for me to provide any input. Frustrating. I understand this is partially a hardware issue, but considering these long-term problems, even with modern trainers, should be considered for the videos. Potentially consider ramping up resistance as the user works towards the peak cadence goals?

When I finished the ride, I still don’t understand how to quit the app on macOS after going full screen. I have to resort to command+Q each time to quit.

Regarding SYSTM updates, I was never notified there was an update on my previous version (and no changelog to see if that has been addressed.) Additionally, there is still no manual ‘check for updates’ which is typically offered in the top left corner menu on macOS apps

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Not quite sure what you mean by dashboard

This is by design. ERG is meant to keep the resistance at X which stays steady at a certain cadence. If you stop pedaling, it forces it to do something to match the lower cadence (which in your case is 0) and that something is increased resistance. Just as if you were to suddenly increase your cadence, it would instead lessen the resistance in response.

At best the Kickr or Kickr core provides an estimate of cadence and again does a pretty good job at steady state but as you’ve experienced not so good when you ramp it up. I’d suggest a separate cadence sensor. For cadence drills, I’ll put my bike in the small ring up front, and the biggest cog in back. This way, flywheel speed/intertia/momentum is kept to a minimum so when I spin out, it doesn’t take too long for resistance to catch back on. Fwiw, I always have auto pause OFF by default. I see no benefit in the feature for my uses.

You should be able to move the mouse to the top left corner and the red/green circles should appear (you may have to do this a couple times before they show up…it’s a bug I’ve reported) then you can select green to return to default size or red to quit.

As for updates yep, there’s no manual check and when there is one, you usually get a little pop up notice that asks if you want to install and restart. As for updates and change logs
You can find those here

Anything else and I’ll have to charge you for the personalized service :wink: Just kidding. Hope this helps.

The web view of the app you shared - SYSTM

I understand the concept of ERG, but was making a suggestion to developers to consider turning off ERG for the warmup/cooldown due to the scenarios I presented, such as getting my foot better seated in my shoe and wanted to tweak my BOA. Similarly, the distractions once the ride is over. (And the annoyance that ERG still persists post-ride.)

Is flywheel managed by cadence? I understand the Kickr is an estimation, but if I use a different cadence sensor, will that actually change how the Kickr/SYSTM applies resistance? I assumed it was a flaw in the hardware but also in the prescribed software’s planned resistance (such as resistance level 2/10)

I figure I’d rather do cadence drills away from ERG due to this quirk.

Good tip on turning off auto-pause, though I’ve had to use that whenever I hit an ERG wall, but wonder if that just takes time either way.

Good to know about the bug and also that they’ve implemented a pop-up to encourage updates. Thanks for the info.

For today, I decided to use the SYSTM Android app on my Chromebook to complete a Yoga session. I’ve used this in the past, but today I encountered a weird issue where my device kept putting the screen to sleep. I’m wondering if there is Android code that keeps the device awake. The app was full screen focused. I was using the laptop without a power cable, so next time I’ll try it plugged in, but that would be an annoying requirement for a 15 minute yoga session. I’m wondering if the Android app does not set a flag for window.addFlags(WindowManager.LayoutParams.FLAG_KEEP_SCREEN_ON) suggested here: Keep the device awake  |  Android Developers

Just validating - this is the correct place to report bugs, right? I’m just sharing my experiences with the service to document user experience quirks with the hope to make it easier for developers/Workout planners to evolve it. (I’m comfortable working around the issues, but figure it helps document.)

Thanks again for the feedback.

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Flywheel speed is determined by cadence plus gear choice plus size/weight of flywheel plus whether or not you are in ERG. So, like riding to the top of a steep hill grinding it out at 40-50 RMP then cresting the hill and not changing gears, your legs are gonna spin around at the sudden change in resistance required. Same thing as sprinting to overcome massive resistance then suddenly taking that resistance away, again, your legs are gonna need to slow right down at least until the resistance kicks back in. Am I making sense?

The reason I do cadence drills in ERG (in small ring and big cog) is that it allows me to focus 100% on cadence and I don’t have to try to find the level # and gear that works best at not ramping resistance up so high that my efforts are harder than they need to be for these types of drills. I find that once I have reached my max cadence (usually 200+ RPM) if I consciously slow my cadence to under 60 the Kickr usually gives me back resistance in 2-5 seconds. If I am in a harder gear that it takes longer for the flywheel to settle down.

I’m not an Android user but the Yoga/Strength/Mobility Player is a little different than the ride player. I use iOS and have never had the screen go to sleep. There may be a setting on your device that if you aren’t actively doing something that it goes to sleep and I guess maybe it considers yoga as not actively doing something :stuck_out_tongue: :man_shrugging:

This topic area (SYSTM Software < Feature Requests) is NOT the place to report bugs. This specific topic area is to recommend features (like some of what you’v mentioned eg. turn ERG off during warmup/cooldown, or set flag to keep android awake). BUT… to give any one feature request clarity and increase the likelihood of it being seen, you should create a new topic for each request and clearly mark your topic. So, for the example of turning ERG off during warmup/cooldown, that would be the PERFECT title. i.e. Turn ERG off during warmup/cooldown :slight_smile:

As for individual bugs or issues, similarly it’s always best and clearest if you have one topic/subject per post. Of course, this is the internet and we can be a silly and sarcastic bunch so don’t be surprised or offended if your topic gets derailed, it will usually get back on track at some point. As for where to post these issues, the best place given the current categories is likely just the broader SYSTM Software one (without the Feature Request sub heading). Or, if it’s Content specific then the SYSTM Content category and it’s relevant sub heading (eg. Yoga, Strength, SUF vids etc). Honestly, the forum categories could use a bit of love but I just live here, I dont have any privileges (nor do I want them :P).

If you are having an issue yourself, it is absolutely bring it up in the forums, but it is usually worth it to contact the minions and submit a support ticket too. This will ensure it actually gets documented (they’re not always trawling the forums) and if there are others with the same issue reporting it, it might get bumped up a queue for priority attention.

Support minions can be contacted here though most of them are probably off for SUFmas or Festivus:

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Gotcha. Thanks for the detailed responses.

I’ll explore posting Support Tickets later (lot of topics to rehash). That is historically the path i’ve taken.

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Support tickets for things you’re unable to resolve on your own and may be a bug or a glitch. Not for feature requests,

Happy to help.