Do you have indoor 4DP and outdoor 4DP metrics to manual adjust before a workout?

I know Wahoo has done a fantastic job on talking about indoor vs. outdoor power in their podcast and online articles. I cannot seem to find an answer for the question of adjusting 4DP metrics for workout targets when riding indoor vs outdoors - should you have indoor AND outdoor 4DP metrics?

I know this can differ between person to person and sometimes FTP/MAP/etc. are actually pretty similar for individuals when riding indoors vs outdoors.

I have spent the last 3-4 months inside on my Kickr with workout targets set from my Full Frontal test. The weather in the PNW is improving and I have started cycling outside with some rides having SYSTM workouts loaded that are pulling my indoor 4DP numbers to set the targets. I think I fall into the category where my numbers outdoors are higher than indoor numbers.

Should I be completing a Full Frontal test outside (I have read some forums that people have successfully done this) and then manually entering my outdoor 4DP numbers into my Wahoo profile. So I would have indoor 4DP and outdoor 4DP metrics that I would manually change each time whether I ride indoor or outdoor to complete a workout.

Thanks everyone. This is my first ever post and I hope to have responses!


My personal feeling is that unless you are competing, outside rides should be done to RPE.

Sometimes I will check heart rate on longer rides, and I do check numbers during a post-ride analysis. A feel for RPE is something that should be developed on the trainer.

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@grantuchong I am with @Heretic on this one - I would suggest just training to RPE. If you are training with power outdoors you can use RPE to confirm either your numbers are fine or you can try adjusting them a few percentage points. My experience is that MAP, AC and NM are more likely to be affected because I can better leverage my power into the the bike outdoors with a wider range of positions. Cooling also can affect my FTP numbers a bit.


I don’t think that Full Frontal can be done outside safely. Think about trying to do the 5 minute part of the test and still trying to look out for cars. I do you power outside, but I’m mostly going by RPE and then looking at the file after the workout.

Hi @grantuchong! If you have accurate 4DP numbers for your indoor workouts (ideally having done Full Frontal), then the power targets for your outdoor sessions will be a range based on those values. We know that some folks have slightly higher or lower 4DP values outdoors compared to indoors, so that’s why we use a range for your outdoor targets rather than a specific value.
That being said, if you have a drastic difference in powermeter readings from indoors to outdoors, then you might fall outside of those ranges. In that case, we recommend using RPE (rating of perceived effort) as a cross check to the power targets.
Happy riding!


Thanks everyone for the insight, really good information. This was something I was very curious on and RPE seems to be the answer!

@Coach.Neal.H I did notice the ranges and I was also curious about that. But makes complete sense.


Have been thinking about this myself really, and read an article referring to a study indicating that indoor and outdoor power are usually not the same, with outdoor usually being somewhat higher (how much is however an individual issue). The study was however carried out on WT riders, thus there are a few uncertainties coming into play, like how accustomed are you to riding a trainer for example, as the constant resistance from an indoor trainer is different to the inertia experienced outside, and this may differ to us mere mortals, and thus the results may not necessarily be valid to an amateur doing the majority of his training inside, whereas a WT rider would be mostly outside on the road.

In any case I came to the conclusion that I use the range provided by structured outside rides, and try to stay in the upper end of the intervals. When crosschecking with RPE that seems about right compared to indoor rides (although not doing the exact same sessions), thus I feel my experience is very much in line with the answer from @Coach.Neal.H :+1: