Full-Frontal adjusted results - what does it mean?

Training
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So, I just finished my 4th Full-Frontal (a couple of Half-Monty’s in between) I blew up spectacularly.
For the first time, I got “adjusted results”, not sure why in this case, as it was all real.

Getting to the sprints, all good, about the “usual” power, above 1000W to make it a 4 digits, all good.

MAP, aka 5 minute effort. I glued myself to the target from Half-Monty and gave it all, as the app says, no holding back, I think I died and resuscitated several times, but was able to finish it very close to the HM target !!!
This was a new personal best in 5 minute efforts, little cup from Training peaks etc, all was looking good, but I was completely toast.

20 minute effort starts, and … nothing.
I was completely empty from the start, was barely able to finish it, HR was high*ish (within targets) but power was not there.
To better exemplify how toast I was, the power I was able to put out, was the same (±5 watts) of the power during the constrained HR effort at half-monty.

AC was about right, a little lower than last FF, but in the ballpark. (I think I did not start it hard enough).

Results came back, and it says my MAP was adjusted as it was >140% of FTP…

What does this mean ?? That I really suck at repeated efforts ?
That my FTP is not generated aerobically, so with legs blown from 5 minute effort, this FTP is the “real” number, and HM is inflated ?

Everything says NOT HOLD BACK for the 5 minutes, I did not hold back … is it possible to go too hard for it ?

App still gives me weakness as sustained… I think it should be more repeated, as when “fresher”, my sustained efforts are better…

Any thoughts on this ?

Thanks !

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Hey Paulo,
Welcome to the Forum! Looking at your Half Monty result earlier this week and your FF result today, a couple of possibilities:

  1. You have a high anaerobic capacity (AC) which could influence the half monty results toward a higher MAP and FTP.
  2. You just didn’t have good legs for a FF after doing a HM earlier in the week. Did you do much training between mid Sept to Mid October?
    Some more thoughts:
    You can keep your MAP where you tested at. Don’t worry if it’s >140% of FTP
    You don’t suck at repeated efforts…you dug a big fatigue hole in the 5 min effort, as you should have, but just did not have the recovery in you to generate a big 20 min effort. Your weakness of sustained efforts is correct. Are you planning on using a SUF plan for the next 12 weeks?
    Happy to answer more questions.

cheers,
Spencer

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This sound eerily familiar to my FF test 2 weeks ago, but I didn’t have any results adjusted. I did the HM - FF double the week after my first 100 mile effort. I hit 4 digits in NM, a new record MAP after setting a new record MAP in the HM. New record AC. But my 20-min was miserable and I couldn’t hold the power I knew I could hold and died twice. But my MAP wasn’t high enough to adjust my FTP results. I adjusted my FTP back up to match my HM results but left all other numbers as-is. It’s likely due to fatigue and a weakness in sustained efforts.

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Thanks for the quick reply Spencer !!

So, for future testing, should I pause a bit longer after the 5 mins, or just leave it as is and suck it up?
Also, you say I can adjust MAP back, what about FTP ? It went down a bit since HM and I was surviving workouts with that setting.

Mid Sept to Mid october I have been getting back into running, so small easy runs, and some unstructured outdoor riding as the weather was nice :slight_smile:

As it was not structured, I wanted to test before getting back to having a plan.

Yes, I plan you using the “All purpose Road” plan (+yoga+strenght) for winter training.
(Unless you give me a better ideia :slight_smile: )

What I want to train for now is exactly that, all purpose fitness.

Regards,
Paulo

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@pauloserra ,
It’s really hard to come in off a month of varied unstructured training and jump right into Half Monty then Full Frontal in the same week. Don’t add more rest in FF. Just do some more consistent training. The numbers make sense considering the training you’ve done for the past month. And that’s not a bad thing.
For your all purpose plan, keep all the numbers you tested at (without the adjustment) and go from there. You will see progress!

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Last year I failed in a similar fashion doing FF. I didn’t do a HM before and followed the regular last week of the 12-weeks plan.
I had some numbers in mind, about 330W for the 5-min and 260W for the 20-min.
Doing FF I also died and resuscitate finishing with 229 W average.
However, I had no legs (maybe) and especially no mind (for sure) remaining to suffer an extra 20-min. So I gave up a few minutes from the start even though I had been keeping close to the 260 W during that try.

I decided to move on with the new (imaginary for FTP) numbers and they seemed real. A bit of extra suffering in the beginning as usual.
Later that year the numbers proved very consistent with my performance in some real races.

After some time not following structured training and passing more than ideal vacations in couchlandria, yesterday I did Half Monty in the 8th week of an all-purposed road (advanced with strength and yoga) plan. FTP raised 218 to 252 W, MAP 288 to 317 W.
It seems I will end close to my best ever numbers after this 12 weeks plan. First time I do the 3:1 advanced plan, it really fitted to me.

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Thanks Spencer.

So, no need to retest ?
The all purpose even with slightly lower FTP should produce results hopefully.

I noticed there is a HM in the mid plan, that will likely inflate zones again, should I stick with it ?

Also, you mention I should have a big anaerobic capacity that is skewing results, any tips on working on my aerobic power ?
I really feel the need to improve sustained efforts, and I seem to do better at lower cadences, is this as lower cadence recruits more of the muscle system ?

Having said that, can you share any tips on how to get the best out of the plan in terms of sustained efforts ? Should I focus on higher cadences, even if it means slightly less power ?
(I have a dumb trainer, but use a powermeter to measure efforts, so it is not always possible to get both power and cadence targets).

In this case, will I get a real benefit from upgrading to a trainer with erg mode ?

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Hey Paulo,
I think going with the numbers you have right now will work for you. And you’re right the Half Monty mid plan will update your FTP and MAP. If it’s slightly skewed, you’ll know in the next week or two following. Not to worry, you can always reduce by a small percentage. The plan you choose automatically is based on your weakness and you should see improvement by the end of the plan. Some keys on improving are:

  1. really work the cadence drill videos
  2. The low cadence videos, GOAT, Power Station and GCN Torque Monster will recruit more muscle.
  3. Add strength and yoga
  4. I know it’s a pain with a dumb trainer but try and find the right gear to hit the power primarily but also get close to cadence for most of the workouts.

A smart trainer will give you more options and you’ll love erg mode!
Also, I love the Wahoo climb, with the Kickr.
Keep us up to date on your progress.

Cheers,
Spencer

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Hi @Coach.Spencer.R

Can I confirm what should be done when the value are adjusted?

I did a 4DP and my 5min was as expectedd but the 20 minute was really poor this time around(I think I’m fatigued or my last 6 weeks have blunted my 20 minute).

Due to the low 20 minute power the 5 minute power was automatically adjusted to 141% , but it seems like it adjusted quite a lot down.

I’m going to start the All Purpose Road next week.
Should I edit my 5 minute back to the pre-adjusted value and keep the 20 minute as I recorded in the 4DP or do i keep all the values as is??

Cheers for the clarification
Chris

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Hey @Tuney,
Welcome to the forum! I’m sorry your 20 min test didn’t go well for you. It happens to all of us at some time or another. If you were fatigued the 5 min test probably pushed you over the edge. I see a couple of options, 1. keep you values as tested (pre adjusted 5 min). you’ll have the opportunity to update your FTP and MAP in the Half Monty test in the middle of your plan.
2. Do a Half Monty test before your start your All Purpose plan in the middle or near the end of this week.
How does that sound?

cheers,
Spencer

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Hi Spencer

That’s great, thanks for the advice.
I think I’ll do a Half Monty this week and see how it goes…I suppose I’m just a glutton for punishment!

Thanks again.
Chris