OK I'm convinced. Systm is a POS!

@Dimitri Works fine for me on iOS - both the iPad and iPhone.

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Not dismissing that there are those with issues, but I also have had very few problems on iPad & iPhone.

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I reacted to the post suggesting to try it on a real computer.

I actually use SYSTM on iOS, and it doesn’t work reliably for me. Issues streaming, issues playing downloaded vids, sound issues, … all with the most recent iOS and updated SYSTM app. Issues I have never encountered with Sufferfest.

I might be just an exception, but the noticeable increase in complaints since the change from Sufferfest to SYSTM makes me believe I might not be unique. Unless all of these people suddenly became noisier.

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… or the numbers significantly increased, which is viable given the marketing and visibility created during the launch and by the exposure of the Wahoo brand.
This is something we, as customers and outside the business, can only speculate upon.

If I may relate this, again, to another area of technology/IT. Sometimes you have to look at what the platform is trying to achieve.
Let’s look at games consoles and desktop PCs. Games consoles can often get very close to, if not in the later-early days of a generation beat a PC in terms of games performance despite having, in relative terms, typically worse hardware. Why? Because they have (historically) only a single selection of hardware and that allows developers to target them “perfectly”, while PC developers or PC ports of a console game need to support a far wider array of hardware, so getting the same level of performance takes more work or relies on brute force computing.

A console is easier to develop for than the entire PC market (assuming you don’t just target bleeding edge hardware and stuff everyone else) because you can be very focused in what you’re developing for.
Sufferfest, the platform, was a console in this respect. It did just it’s own videos in it’s own form and it didn’t work on Android (which many, many people complained about).
SYSTM is a first issue PC games release, in that sense. It’s far more ambitious in terms of what it’s trying to provide, but with that comes a weight of development and support cost. It supports Android, the intention appears to be for it to replace the Wahoo Fitness app too and allow it to manage your Elemnt bike computer, pair and calibrate your power devices or spin down your Kickr etc.

The scope of service has changed, we can assume the scale of the customer base has also, so the scope for failure has increased.

It is just my opinion, but that opinion is based on 21+ years in IT and 10 of those at a world known computer games developer, that they’re not doing a terrible job.

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Indeed, we can’t look inside and verify what is happening. We can only speculate.

Looking from the outside I can see that for me the service now works significantly worse than before, while I still use the same functionality and the same device.

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@Dimitri Ironically the workout player is the same from the SUF days - they haven’t rebuilt that yet. My guess is that some of the issues are due to a mix of the older dated architecture and the new code but that is just a guess. Fortunately there is a plan to update the workout player this year.

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I think that for me, the UK server might be the issue. Could explain why some people have big issues, and others don’t. Anyway I have an annual contract, so contrary to OP, I’m not going anywhere. The SYSTM approach to training is unique in many aspects and I hope issues get resolved soon.

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Looks like this is the issue and I can try and run this as well. I don’t use brick workouts and probably never will (knee issues keep me from running unless I want surgery to correct).
As to the platform issue, iOS introduced a large number of issues, not just with SYSTM. Since you are running a Windows platform of sufficient quality, the program should run without any issues. Have you tried to run Yoga workouts after downloading them to see if they are affected as well?
As to installing software, I worked with a major ITOM product. The first thing they recommended was a complete rebuild of the system (I’m not joking here). That was on a virtualized platform that their engineers designed. I was not a happy day when I took that to the CTO. I’m pretty sure that company is now using a competitors product. I used to use as a joke when one of our systems was acting up was to reboot the system to ‘clear it out’. Several software products from well known manufacturers had memory usage issues. We had to reboot them weekly or they would lock up. So, for a company to ask you to perform a system reboot or a software reinstall is not all that unusual.

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@Dimitri Agreed - definitely unique and has been a big help to me so I am hoping the same.

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Hi @Critmark,
On behalf of everyone at Wahoo, I’m very sorry to hear that SYSTM has been causing you headaches, and I personally apologize about the issue with the Split Brick workout. I made an error, but have fixed it and it should be ready for use. We are human and make mistakes sometimes but if you let us know, we will do everything we can to make them right. Luckily in this case, it’s a pretty easy fix for this workout and the other two Split Brick sessions. Please accept my apology and I hope this helps you get back to your scheduled training quickly!

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So… I’ve been a faithful and grateful SUF (now Systm) subscriber for a little over a year. From time to time I’ve experienced some issues with the program/syncing whatever and each time i have contacted the Minions, I’m amazed how quickly they have responded and resolved my issues (today in fact). The rest of the time I’ve just enjoyed being guided through the workouts and i love the new content that is being added. I’m sure its a big ask becoming integrated into the Wahoo fold and some bumps will arise but I believe with some patience we will be enjoying an even better experience. I look forward to continued suffering!

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Thank you. I see the one in question is now fixed, and one of the other two has been fixed in the past hour. Appreciate the reply.

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This response sums up my experience with SYSTM/Wahoo/The Sufferfest. Most of the time everything is great. On occasion, someone makes a mistake, they admit to it, apologize for it, and do everything they can to make it right.

I know I can never leave but really, where else am I gonna go for a product like this and service like that?

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You’re welcome. All 3 are fixed now. Enjoy!

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…I rest my case!

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I’ve always found the support from The Sufferfest to be really good, and separately from Wahoo to be really good. It was one reason I chose a Kickr over Neo.

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I won’t go that far …but they really have long -long - way to
go the catch the leader “Zwift”…I’m still keeping Zwift bc “ERG” not working at least for me , with WS …& support suck

Conversely, and again with a lot of experience in the software world, I get why some people like Zwift, but for me it is a truly terrible piece of software, especially given the volume of resource.

It’s okay, I get the point, but I honestly think with a team of 5 back in my old company we could have basically got all of Zwift from ground up done in under a month…
It’s a product of it’s own success and the lack of genuine competition for what it does. In the world of software and judged as a game (because, really, that’s what it is) it’s amateur.

Not that this is competition, but…

Also, one of my biggest bugbears with Zwift is that their hardware integration is quite patchy. Their ERG integration is horrible, both over BT and ANT+.

Still, this isn’t a “pissing contest”, but this is the Wahoo/SUF board.

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Dimitri you don’t have to waist your time …most of the guys on forum are mouthpieces of Wahoo , that’s what bring me to WS in the first ,I watched an As…hole on YouTube & his praise of WS …then get into trouble , I wake up even if its little too late as I already paid …but the most shocking is when I saw GCN doing video for WS ,but using tacx Ne02…

As the OP here, I am more than happy to concede that support here is responsive, when they have an answer. They did fix the workouts not loading issue.

But I think sometimes responsiveness gets confused with something being a good product. I am very pleased that they fixed all three workouts. But that didn’t change the fact that it messed up my schedule.

And saying it was an error and they are human is a distinction without a difference. That would imply that the other problems weren’t due to an error, which leaves they were done intentionally. Now I know that is not the case, but it is the logical conclusion to the ‘were only human’ defense for not loading a workout properly.

Then there is the first part of my problems that has gone completely ignored. The first three times I tried to load the program I got message that I needed to activate my 0 day trial. Why did that happen when I have an annual subscription?

I will repeat, I like Systm, when it works. The relationship is simple. Tell me what you will give me in exchange for my money. But I have had numerous issues. While I appreciate the responsiveness, it is little comfort when the software I am promised in exchange for my money doesn’t perform.

I think of it like a referee in football or boxing. A good one is the referee that you don’t ever notice. They do there job so you can enjoy the event. I just want to do my workouts and not think about the software.

Please everyone, be safe and be well.

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