As 50%of the population are women and we have been asking for a training plan for years… Good luck on getting age based …
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@Saddlesaur & @NorthumberlandHill please help me understand something. I am not trying to be confrontation, but genuinely trying to understand.
If three people have the identical 4DP profile as follows:
Age 66 - Male, Age 36 - Male and Age 46 - Female, what changes in a plan would you suggest are necessary because of the differences in age and gender? If they have differing objectives, they may choose different plans, but if they all choose the same plan, what needs to change?
TIA.
Women have hormone cycles, so ideally training plans should consider this. For instance yesterday i completed Rue the day with absolute ease, the week before I crawled through allez jean.
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Fair enough and freely admit, not something I thought of. However, I have had times when circumstances have dictated I alter a plan for a day or a week. I have to move each ride on my calendar. It would be nice if there was a way to shift an entire plan but I don’t think that is currently possible. Would that work for you?
Please remember I am an old fart male, so I am ignorant to such things, but very open to learning.
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So hard with us all having different length cycles. I’m near enough to a 28 day one, so always do a 3:1 plan and set it to start on the Monday as close as possible to day 1. And sometimes tweak the start/end of the block as needed. Serves me well thankfully but k ow this won’t be the case for all women.
The need for rest/recovery varies wildly among individuals, and the need generally increases with age. This has been widely observed. As with all population statistics there are outliers. If you are one of them more power to you.
@DameLisa, @NorthumberlandHill: What do elite female riders do given races are scheduled as they are scheduled. Do they suppress their periods? Or does the UCI consider that doping?
You definitely do NOT supress a period. That is when we are most strong like a dude and kick ass. They are our secret weapon. It is simple, your ride strategy changes. We have one week when we are superhuman, naturally, a week when it is ALL about strength, a week when we kick butt at endurance and then a week when things are generally blergh but we can still do well with some smart nutrition and hydration tweaks. Simples.
We can do well on ANY day of our cycle. But how we tackle recovery, nutrition and timing of food and macros may change to optimise things for any particular hormone phase. Apps like Wild.AI make it super easy(er). Am still learning but it makes a huge difference to follow the recommendations
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What made me ask the question was this statement:
It would seem that at least for some, there is a wide difference between weeks. Or is that just one of the many differences between the elite riders and the rest of us?
Every woman is individual. That’s why we track every symptom I guess. Then we learn what we can ride best when. But like you say, race day is race day.
@Heretic Also, yes, there can be a wide variance between weeks. In my low power weeks, I can barely do a TGU with an 8kg kettlebell. In a power week, 12kg is a piece of cake. Some weeks I have no endurance. Some weeks I have an insane sprint and I’m like, “where did that come from?!” 
Super individual though. Some women are almost non functional the first 2 days of their cycle. I ocassionally have a month like that, but usually I’m pretty low symptom since I increased my protein amd made sure my iron, magnesium, zinc and VitD levels are all ok. I’m also on progesterone because my hormones tanked after getting RED-s.
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Always nice for someone to ask about things they may not have thought about. We all have exposure to very different experience of the world.
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I do suffer quite badly one week of the month, but we are all very differently and it changes over time. (Better now then as a child) Hormone treatment helps, as a kid i was put on the pill as it helps some types of symptoms. I dont know but alot of medication can be sought exception (there is a lot of asthma in the pro peleton), by The uci.
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Yes, the 4DP metrics characterize current performance, but they don’t determine how an individual will respond to a training regimen. So, there is current performance and the objective. The training plan between those two is what needs to be appropriate to the individual. A training plan that works well for a typical 30 year old male will very likely not be optimal for a typical 60 year old male. I say “male” because as the current shift in this thread’s direction brings up the very good point of the differences between men and women in this regard.
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Ok, I am not a lady but I do occasionally have days like that too. There were a few times, after doing sprint workouts, I am still full of energy.
I am not sure if my rider profile truly reflects my abilities because previously, I was categorised as an Attacker and since my last 2 FFs, I was reclassified as a Sprinter.
Time for a new FF?
I guess even taking hormones out of the equation, all sorts of life stress can have a huge impact too, not enough sleep, fighting off a bug, bad day at work, worry about sick kids etc.
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‘And here in lies the rub’ as they say. Three problems (at least) present themselves.
First, a plan must be designed that allows an individualized plan for every person because, as you point out, we are all individuals. How many variables to you need to get to the right plan design for any individual? The scale could be completely untenable.
Two, the designer of the plan must accurately apply the variations for the plan based on multiple variables. Let me use age as just one example. I am 66. Does the plan change if I am 67? What happens if a plan spans my birthday? Does the plan change mid-plan because a day on the calendar passes? And do all 66 year old males react the same, even with similar 4DP profiles? How much does one variable effect another? Last August I was age 65 and weight 232. Today I am ag 66 and weight 195. How much does one offset the other?
Third, and this is something I don’t her talked about a lot, does the person properly identify their capabilities? When does a person need to switch from a 3:1 plan to a 2:1 plan? Is that static or can I appropriately change from 2:1 plans I have been doing for a year to a 3:1 plan, despite being a year older, because I am in better shape? See my age/weight comments above.
The point I am making here is to get to a truly individualized plan, you can’t use this type of platform. You have to use a coach. A live human being with the expertise to analyze all the variables and design something right for you. And not all coaches are capable of doing that.
So where does that leave us? I have worked for software development companies in my career. What platforms like this should do (IMO) is look at what they can deliver to their audience that is directionally correct enough to be of value to that audience. Unfortunately that means not doing some things. With that said, where is Wahoo today.
I think there are some improvements to the platform that can and should be made. I have read on this forum many excellent suggestions. Most are not related to training plans however. Perhaps a section needs to be created here that just deals with training plan improvements. Have ideas brought forward and have them really hashed out. What I think you will find is some are impossible due to both individual variation and feature variation. But some may emerge as both doable and valuable.
My 2 cents, inflation adjusted to 9 cents!
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Which is why I suspect, they do not provide adjustments for age or for biological sex. They probably do not have enough data, or the variability is too great. For all I know the lawyers argue there is too much risk in doing so.
It would be nice if they told us why, but I suppose that might be asking too much.
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Historical note: Medicare and Social Security ages were fixed when the program started in 1935. At that time only half the people who reached age 21 were expected to make it to 65, and they were only expected to need it for 12 years. So 65 in 1935, was, unlike today, really old.
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Yep agree with this! The variabilities are insane. Even with a 28 day cycle, the days in each phase aren’t always identical every month.
This is my tracking app telling me what to do today, endurance and strength today which is interesting as those are quite different. Basically I can do either or and feel good.
I am checking this against my plan (Elements of Style). My tracking app says to hit the strength workouts this week. I have GOAT later in the week, so the plan is well setup for me this week. I will add on a heavy weights gym session on top of EoS today and on any other lower intensity ride days. I’ve also got long Covid so trying to stay in HR zone 2 this week. So EoS and GOAT are perfect as the bulk of it will keep me in zone2 and the gym work is zone 1 and 2, except for plyo work, but that will only just push me into zone 3 briefly.
RHR is ok, was up to 54 when I had Covid. And improving weekly so hopefully back down to 45 in a few more weeks. This is why my readiness level is so low today along with slightly disrupted sleep.
From yesterday’s open45, I get a post ride recovery protocol and this changes depending on where I am hormone wise. This phase… I just need to eat the right things in the right amounts at the right time. In another phase the app will recommend cold water immersion as well.
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Do post-menopausal athletes have it easier from the perspective of variability? Or are there the equivalent effects to the decline in testosterone in men. Often that decline makes DOMS occur sometimes much later, or even the next day.
Are you usually on a plan, and move it around, or do you just do workouts based on what you wish to improve and what your status is for a given day.
I have no problem moving workouts around based on how I feel, but given my age, I have found that 3:1 or 2:1 really does not help me, and plans are not so useful.
From what you say, it would seem that your fitness does seem to help with your long COVID which, from what I read, is another source of variability.
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