I mean, price increase last year was partly because two systems got combined. Now that one part is gone seems reasonable to dial the pricing down a notch or three.
I think that might be worth asking the owners directly in case they don’t see your forum question - risk is that the actual pricing team/owners might not see a forum post such as this - but hey you never know eh - wahoo are quite active in these forums.
I’m not convinced about this one myself - I don’t remember the price being increased due to the RGT acquisition - $15 a month seems in line with others - I had a quick re-check just in case anyone had reduced their prices - the two I checked were Rouvy and Zwift and they seem to be the same.
Costs nothing to ask
Any view on what you think it could be reduced to ?
The price increase coincided with RGT being combined with SUF into one app, so that’s just my guess. Or maybe they were trying to go for the same price as competitors, such as Zwift. But now that RGT will be removed one has to ask whether the price is fair considering what features are left available.
As it is, I’d say lowering the price can perhaps gain them a bigger user base if nothing more. Users aren’t dumb, if they see competitors having a better deal overall they’ll jump ship. And considering what’s been going on with Wahoo X and Wahoo as a company in general I’m very wary that much will be improved. They can’t rest on the laurels of laid off staff forever.
Long term I think they should invest into software more in general. Just as an analogy, take gaming consoles for example - they ask a fraction of a gaming PC price and sell hardware basically at a loss. But they gain huge profits from games aka. software. Software sells hardware in this analogy. If the software is good, hardware will sell as well and user base will be huge. Are Wahoo X and bike trainers any different? I don’t think so. Sure it’s even harder considering that competitors trainers can work with Wahoo software, but that’s why they gotta try harder to stay afloat. I hope Wahoo are not counting on regaining their losses just by releasing two new premium price bike trainers in a post covid era. It’s just more of the same strategy that got them in trouble in the first place. Gotta diversify more.
I crawled through history and put together this timeline to show the actual pricing changes:
October 22nd, 2021: SYSTM cost is $129/year or $14.99/mth
October 27th, 2021: RGT cost is $9.99/mth
April 26, 2022: Wahoo purchases RGT, monthly cost of X is $129/year or $14.99/mth
November 15th, 2022: annual from $129 to $149/year, monthly unchanged at $14.99/mth
October 12th, 2023: annual remains $149/year, monthly remains $14.99/mth
If you were just an RGT user and became an X user, your price immediately went up. That is the specific situation where it happened when Wahoo purchased RGT. If you were a SYSTM user and became an X user, your price remained unchanged for over 6 months at which point the yearly went up while monthly was unchanged.
(This is all in USD, it took me long enough to put this together that I’m not doing other currencies)
They’ve raised the price from $129 to $149 in half a year after purchasing RGT and combining it with X. Your data just reinforces my guess.
Since RGT will be no more how about lowering the price back to $129?
I’d say SYSTM is currently very fairly priced and was probably underpriced before. There’s really no other app out there that offers a better value for the money. SUF vids, On Location vids, Pro Rides, A week with series, No-Vids, yoga, strength, mobility, mental training
I’ve yet to see a competitor with anything that would get me to switch.
Edit: also, @Aramintai if you’re an annual WahooX subscriber The Company just gave you a year of Zwift if monthly, 3 months of Zwift That’s worth a lot more than $20.
As much as I want to save dollars wherever possible, I agree SYSTM pricing IS reasonable, and the increase to $149 annual was still reasonable CONSIDERING what else is going on all over.
I’m NOT a frequent user by any means, generally just a few rides a month at most, and don’t use the other categories of workouts almost ever.
That price increase from $129 to $149 annual was about HALF the percentage increase I got from Strava on the latest jump to $80 annually, so even though I NEVER like price increases…
I DETEST losing the presence of a company whose product(s) are important to me and I don’t want them going away!!
That’s how I feel about SYSTM… so I pay the bill and hope they can hang through a tough time and come out better in the future.
I HATE starting over…
So basically what you and other guy are saying is that you’re content with paying same money for less features/worse product than before. Just to support Wahoo or whatever.
Personally, I think it’s not my responsibility to keep them afloat by giving freebies. It’s capitalism and market is open for all. Also, bit by bit money adds from here and there, $20 is not inconsequential.
I get your point, we pay the same and get less. But I believe 149€ is good value for money.
Every big player in the market is increasing or has increased the price. It is a struggle, even for ZWIFT. RGT was a freebie as you call it. You get a Zwift deal in compensation for the loss of RGT.
I also disagree with your point about the need to diversify. That’s what got Wahoo in trouble. They have to focus on what they do best. It is good to see they are still developping new top notch trainers. New SYSTM workouts is also a focus point. They are moving forward.
I never used RGT, it was a free add-on I didn’t care when it was removed, SYSTM has continued to add excellent content and still offers me value for money, its now $40 less per year than its nearest competitor TrainerRoad which doesn’t include any video, music, strength or Yoga workouts.
Almost all goods and services have increased in price since 2021, its called inflation.
Mmm. Certainly not what I’m saying. So I have to disagree that I’m paying more money for a worse product. That’s completely at odds with what I said.
Year on year I’m getting more for my money than I was two years ago. RGT was ‘even more’ for a bit but it doesn’t change the fact that the platform has had more additions anyway, so we gain some functionality and we lose some and the price goes up once in two years (only in the annual rate which is still a 12 for 10 discount vs monthly)
Please don’t try and turn my words round to mean something they didn’t say or imply.
there’s a list of prices provided in an earlier post that shows Wahoo didn’t change the monthly rate around RGT time. And also didn’t change the annual rate.
Seven months later wahoo increased their annual rate slightly (which means if we use annual, the discount is $30 a year still - so we’re still being discounted (12 months for 10 equivalent monthly rather than 12 for 9)
If I’m “other guy” ( I DO like that name by the way ) I’m not saying that at all. I think The Company has compensated annual subscribers more than fairly for the loss of RGT by providing them a $180 USD value and monthly subscribers a $45 USD value.
You’re right though. It’s a free market and if you think you can find a better value for your subscription dollars then no one is obligating you to stay. That is, unless you’re a Sufferlandrian. If that’s the case you can never leave I hope you stay though cuz there really is a SUF ton of value here and I have yet to see anything else on the market that even comes close to engaging me in my looooooong indoor season the way SYSTM does.
That’s one time promo. But next year same price?
I still think the compensation was fair. If you really liked RGT and are lamenting its loss, you can sign up, for free, for indieVelo. A lot of the folks from RGT have already begun to migrate over there. I signed up myself but I’ll continue to subscribe to SYSTM for the reasons I’ve already said.
I assume Zwift will continue to be the same price next year for Zwift subscribers 9if that;s what you mean). it’s kind of a side thing for me personally - without the one off Zwift thing - SYSTM subs have gone up less than inflation (zero for monthly, 20$ over $129 whatever that is in percent) in the last two years annually). All seems fine tome, with or without freebies
So back to your original question - i don’t think it needs taken down a notch or two, however many different ways we ask it.
But I get that is just my own solo view when I compare it to competitors.
There could be thousands who think it should be less
Here, here!! well said. Just about everything else in our life has been affected by a price hike, most of which TBH is taking advantage of us by using world events/COVID/ War in Ukraine etc, etc etc as an excuse to make billions more profit so SYSTM is excellent value in my view and we should cough up and be happy it is still there.
I tend to agree with you. However, since I am not a big fan of NoVid sessions I really will miss RGT with native workout integration soon.
And (unlike others) I was a fan of GCN videos (which have gone a while ago). So the offer of Wahoo X (which is really great, don’t get me wrong) actually is decreased. Thus considering the pricing is reasonable, especially if you take into account, that a lot of users use it additionally to other subscriptions like Rouvy or Fullgaz or whatever. So whatever helps increasing number of users is good. And if lowering prices draws more users towards our beloved nation of Sufferlandria it’s a good thing. At least marketing team should take it into account.
I really doubt that a decrease in the annual cost by $20 is gonna attract so many more subscribers that it would offset the lost revenue from existing subscribers.
But who knows
I would guess that with all of the pricing variability across countries and time intervals that Wahoo’s marketing folks have a pretty good estimate of how consumer demand responds to pricing, and are setting prices with the goal of making money. Otherwise there probably won’t be a Wahoo for long.
@Aramintai It didn’t have anything to do with RGT.
The increase was related to the overall discount that they provided for an annual subscription. At the time the savings over monthly was 28% and they dialed it back to 18%.
My recollection was that there was a monthly price increase several years ago where they didn’t change the annual (maybe in 2020?). They decided to bring the annual and monthly back in line.
The history is probably in the forums somewhere if you want to check it out but basically if you were a SYSTM subscriber you received RGT for free.