I cancelled. The only thing I liked about SYSTM was the Sufferfest videos. Is there a place to buy just the Suff videos?
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So I don’t have to post this twice, and because this conversation seems to be happening in multiple threads, I’ll paste a link to it here.
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Canceled 2 weeks ago, after many years.
IMHO, Wahoo lost the SUF spirit long ago.
And without the spirit, any other App is just as good…
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I should caveat this with “it’s still early days so I obviously have no indication yet of whether the training is as effective”, but TR seems superior to Systm in just about every way I use it.
The obvious things it’s missing are 4DP and any sort of video content. The former is a big miss (although Wahoo are presumably no longer updating the theory having got rid of everyone involved anyway), but I subscribe to enough YouTube channels to negate the latter through the fact that I CAN RUN THE TR WORKOUT PLAYER IN SPLIT SCREEN.
I will miss Sir Standsalot and a lot of the documentary content though (e.g. the EF videos gave some really cool insights into the lives of the pros and From The Ground Up is a brilliant project).
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I will say this - TR may lack the 4DP, but its “AI” engine has done a really good job of estimating my FTP w/o my having to run a Full Frontal every training cycle. I am grateful for that. 
Seriously though - I feel like I get all the elements of the 4DP from monitoring TR’s (and intervals.icu) power curves. Intervals even allows for age-based/peer group analysis.
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Certainly if the de-Suff’ing continues I will cancel my sub to Systm and give TrainerRoad a go. But my sub is not due for renewal until November. I did the remastered version of “Who Dares” for the first time 2 days ago, and while I can see what Wahoo is trying to do, its the sort of video that having watched once, I really don’t care if I never see it again. This contrasts to the classic Sufferfest videos which I never get tired of.
It is becoming more and more likely I will cancel my Systm subscription. The odd thing is I don’t think Wahoo really cares if I do!
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Done
Why not cancel the subscription now and reevaluate your decision once November approaches? This puts more pressure on Wahoo now rather than later and maybe they reevaluate their strategy.
Regarding TR, I tried it 3 months last year, in preparation for a race. Here’s my feedback:
- absolutely boring interface, but not as big a deal, I just watched recordings cycling races or TV shows
- I didn’t miss the 4DP; the system implemented by TR seems to adapt to your power curve; while their workouts are based on your FTP, workouts that focus on a particular effort level will adapt based on your past training (so if your MAP is very good, your MAP workouts will become harder, even if your FTP stays the same)
- the fact that TR estimates your FTP and you no longer have to do the fitness test is a plus for me
- all the training plan generation based on your racing calendar, with the workouts adapting constantly given your performance felt very good; it’s a great tool if you don’t have a coach and you want software that can do that for you
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You are right!
"Your Wahoo subscription has been cancelled, but you will have full access through Nov 07, 2025.
Thank you for choosing Wahoo for your training journey. Should you decide to rejoin, your entire training history will be available, allowing you to pick up right where you left off."
I really hope Wahoo takes notice of all these cancellations, or at least fronts up to the community and explains why the Sufferfest videos are being remastered in this way.
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I haven’t tried TR. but I have tried Z and some other training and it always bothers me because I’m definitely on the Attacker/Sprinter side and and FTP-based training always underestimates my VO2/MAP making those effort feel way too easy. Same with NM power. 4DP is still much better at identifying my power curve and giving me training that works for my rider profile.
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Why don’t you give Xert a try? It is very good at estimating your entire power curve based on your workouts.
I use it along with Rouvy and Sufferfest.
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This was my plan in Oct when my current subscription runs out
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Given the feedback, I may look into TrainerRoad/Zwift as well come training season.
The one thing that SYSTM has which I haven’t heard of others including is the cross training? Do any others include those short mobility workouts in a training plan, or should I be hand-copying down the library for my own use?
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From someone’s recommendation here previously, I looked into the Dynamic Cyclist system for my cross-training, plus Abi’s content is available through her own portal and on YouTube.
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This is one of the things that makes SYSTM unique and still one of the best value propositions out there. It’s a crying shame that wahoo hasn’t a clue on how to nurture it. ALL of the stuff below, in one reasonably priced subsciption!!!
SUF vids (the reason I stay)
Pro-Rides to quite literally throw yourself in the midst of a race, if that’s your jam
On Location vids if you need a training partner (or two) to take you to your limit
A Week With Series to get a little insight into the lives of some pretty incredible people/places
Inspiration films (to give you something to watch during recovery/Zone 2?+)
No-Vids for some brilliant workouts of varying lengths for varying purposes
Yoga 15 vids (for people like me who hate yoga 
)
Super short mobility vids to make sure you stay at least a little mobile (currently at 314 DIAR)
Strength vids across all manner of ranges
Mental Training sessions (or plan) to help you identify your goals and find a way to make them happen
Training plans that are reasonably easy to modify.
Does it need some love and attention? 100%.
It just kills me that The Company doesn’s seem to see the genuine and unmatched value in what they already have and seem, erm, Couchlandrian bent on destroying SUF, because at the core of it, THAT is why I am here.
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I have no way of knowing for sure, but I think Wahoo is just transforming Systm into an ultra low cost, low maintenance training platform to compliment their fitness equipment. Some, or perhaps all of the Sufferfest videos are the casualty. I was reluctant to cancel my Wahoo sub yesterday. It was a sad process. But now I feel a lot better about it. It really is the only thing companies like Wahoo understand, i.e. their the bottom line.
Unless there is some dramatic change of course for Systm, which I see as very unlikely, I will never buy another Wahoo product again.
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Gathering signatures via an online petition and handing it over to W***O management hardcopy and via LinkedIn eg ???
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there is currently a poll on the Facebook group running… Sufferlandria | Of course, we all know you can never leave... | Facebook
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I refuse to complete that poll.
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Cancelled my Monthly subscription tonight, checked box stating main reason for cancelling is Not satisfied with the app.
Filled in the box explaining reasons, copied the text to paste here, and took screenshots of my cancellation confirmation.
The screen shots caused copies to be created, which deleted my copied text (I’ve somehow lost my Save Clipboard history setting so can’t get it back. 
)
In any case, I explained my disappointment with remastering of Sufferfest video workouts in such a way as to lose the quality and flavor of these excellent videos, as well as with Wahoo’s seeming lack of appreciation for the uniquely valuable 4DP approach and inclusion with this app. I said that I used to be an annual subscriber, but became a monthly because I was not willing to risk my commitment for this app when it seems Wahoo continually downgrades and weakens what were fabulously created and engineered video workouts in the Sufferfest tradition.
I do hope Wahoo wakes up and reverses this trend before it is too late.
Meantime, I will be exploring Rouvy again at some point, as that is the only other app that I think may be a fair, though lesser, option for me in the future if SYSTM is mismanaged to the point of its demise.
The Group Rate option with ROUVY, (assuming it is still a thing?) is something I hope to use to an advantage to interest some friends to join with me at a much lower than average price for any cycling app. A 5-person group plan with annual billing averages only $5.50 per person per month if you have 5 people. That’s untouchable with anything else that I know of.
I know that “I can never leave” and hope things shake out for good in time to come, and will continue to visit this forum because I appreciate those here and the information and attitudes shared as much as I appreciate SYSTM, maybe a bit more!
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